A 900 nm flight from Northern Virginia to South Florida typically takes about 2 hours and 45 minutes. The difference between the left front seat and a cabin chair can be substantial, especially if propeller-induced vibration is being transmitted from the aft fuselage). The contenders are the Piper Meridian, the jet-prop and the TBM. Belvoir Media Group, LLC. There is little or nothing to attribute to the PA-31T design in these accidents. The 106in (2.7m) Dowty Rotol propellers had four round-tip composite blades and 8in (20cm) of ground clearance. Studying the Pilot's manual Insulation and trim was changed to increase finished interior dimensions. Flew one of these from Seoul, South Korea to the US (via Eastern Russia). by a remarkable 60 knots to well over 400 knots. There are a few reasons this might happen: To regain access, please make sure that cookies and JavaScript are enabled before reloading the page. ].i{R8:eozN./s+rSr}_" F"hBbA*9.H[bAF,%VxEp!deBBYaf9'g%FKF8x{SCZ Q0n=\CN*k5h._5cg)xw`u4 Jl3lHPEt To me theyre a lot. Parts availability has had its good times and times that have been not so good, but I do not remember any time an aircraft was grounded more than a few days waiting for parts. Thomas A. Horne, AOPA Pilot, June 1993. INSTALATION AFTER 10 UP. 0000004648 00000 n The PA-42-1000 Cheyenne 400LS seats up to 10 passengers plus 1 pilot. The Garretts have sophisticated protection systems built in. Handling While the basic nature of inertia and mass can make a Cheyenne a lumbering handful for pilots used to lighter airplanes, within their category they are responsive and nimble. One 24 volt, 43 ampere hour air-cooled nickel-cadmium battery, located in the nose section furnished power for engine starting and also serves as a reserve source of emergency electrical power. Piper Cheyenne 400LS Turboprops for Sale | AvBuyer With a fuel capacity of 570 gallons of usable fuel on tap, the 400LS can fly more than 2,000 nm at that setting. Careless support can bite in terms of airworthiness, higher cost and accelerated loss of value. Aircraft Owners & Pilots Association Find it free on the store. The Cheyenne IIXL, manufactured from 1981 to 1984, is basically a Cheyenne II with a 2-foot stretch all of it forward of the main spar. When the altitude-hold is engaged, the trim wheel is in constant motion holding the aircraft level. outrageous or brilliant or both. More recently, former Piper test pilot (and frequent Aviation Consumer contributor) William P. Kelly Jr. discussed the issue in a letter (February 1, 1988). The Cheyenne 400LS is powered by a pair of Honeywell/Allied Signal TPE331-14-801 . And the TBM? The cabin lacks the headroom of a King Air, but large windows help give it a more airy feeling. The pitch instability also becomes a problem in holding patterns at reduced airspeeds between 12,000 and 16,000 feet. For a pilot with no turbine experience, the I or IA would be the best choice because it is the least demanding to operate. Some owners report that the 400LS lacks the build quality compared to a King Air and its rarity can cause head scratches from mechanics who may never have seen one. In October of 2019, with four occupants, we traveled through Canada, Greenland, Iceland, Ireland, Italy and back to Leesburg. Pressurization was increased to 7.6psi (0.52bar) to elevate its ceiling from 35,000 to 41,000ft (10,700 to 12,500m) while maintaining a 10,000ft (3,000m) cabin. Most can be laid to insufficient knowledge of systems, lack of proficiency, failure to use check lists and other human performance issues. An A version, with improved nacelles, was in development when Lock Haven was shut down. This airplane is certified in the normal category. boring aircraft. claim might be true. high level of residual thrust, even at flight idle as the aeroplane was It is an aeroplane that dies everything well. The aircraft was It sprouted the now-typical wing tip fuel tanks, PT6A-28 engines flat rated to 620 SHP and a redesigned flight control system that included a stability augmentation system (SAS) that became an item of major controversy and a blot on the reputation of the entire series. Vents for the fuel system are NACA type, anti-icing, non-siphoning vents which incorporate flame arrestors. 0000012730 00000 n A smaller-diameter, five-blade propeller is available via STC. in other turboprops. The thing fits us like a glove. Serial #: 42-5527036. If the altitude-hold isnt turned on or isnt functioning, we simply dont fly above 230. The 90 series King Airs and the Cessna 425 Conquest I are the only other similar airplanes in the PT6-powered category. 1. The Navajo is arguably one of the best cabin-class twins, but its airframe was designed for 300-HP piston engines, not turbines that are both far more powerful and much lighter. Aircraft Owners & Pilots Association Find it free on the store. It is powered by PT6A-11 engines rated at 500 SHP. Only 24 -31T3 commuters were built in the roughly two year life span of the design. Piper Cheyenne 400LS Specifications - Jet Av Many aircraft including the 400LS were put to the wayside never to be manufactured again. I guess this is one thing Ill investigate over the next year while flying high in my Cheyenne. of propeller clearance. This causes an unnaturally sharp pitchover and rapid speed buildup. At the time, Piper Aircraft was improving on its unpressurized and pressurized piston-twin line of the Piper Navajo and Mojave. Flight-Resource.com For other products 800-544-8594 www.McFarlaneAviation.com Created Date 2/22/2020 11:54:35 AM By early models, we mean the original Cheyenne (later renamed Cheyenne II), the Cheyenne IA, and the stretched Cheyenne IIXL. The starter-generators are 1,000-hour scheduled maintenance events. The SAS is essentially an addition to the flight controls that is supposed to overcome the poor static stability of the original airplane. Piper still stocks a lot of parts, but if a Cheyenne part is unavailable, Piper will still make you one. been approved for five bladed scimitar propellers from Hartzell, which Piper's advertising blurb claims it is quieter than the The Honeywell (Garrett) TPE-331-14 is rated to a maximum of 1,650 shaft horsepower. Three old outdated airframes that are very expensive to operate and maintain. 0000107367 00000 n Accidents The two most notorious Cheyenne accidents were original PA-31Ts involving longitudinal control-the much maligned SAS system. 0000005105 00000 n This and other systems were rationalized with the 1978 model year. However, this doesnt mean it is simple. 0 0000007680 00000 n PIPER CHEYENNE Aircraft For Sale - 14 Listings | Controller.com There is a lot to the proper care of the rest of the airplane, too. Some 178 of these Cheyennes were built, and they were very popular in their day. Generally speaking, operators of the original version should make a dedicated commitment to good initial and recurrent training, rigorous pre-purchase inspection and evaluation and make sure they find a very qualified maintenance technician and shop. In 1981, auto-ignition was first offered as an option. Its a shame Piper stopped manufacturing the PA42-1000 in 1992 due to a continuing economic downturn, forcing most aircraft manufacturers into bankruptcy. This presents no problem, but I can see how an inexperienced pilot could find himself a trifle overwhelmed by either the extra speed or the oscillations. -n!Zf`Wb | 9jL+_.6b|*3CY>D{}cLtGc"N%%y,IgR?/Mp6e>oBN)RLsSp#fS-4[4TkH-%K]u*[44Y#n They are kidding themselves, since the reason theres no SAS is because the PT6A-11 engines are substantially downrated, and produce much less power. View photos, ownership, registration history, and more. Please contact Mike Shafer (315) 415-0401. Parts availability for older Cheyennes hasnt been a problem. 269 0 obj <>stream Piper Cheyenne III & IIIA | Business Jet Traveler One additional factor I believe to be absolutely necessary is that pilots flying the Cheyenne should attend the Flight Safety school on the Cheyenne on a recurrent basis. With trade-in for our cores and the appropriate certification, we could probably do the exchange for $270,000, less than the projected cost of overhauling our -11 engines. the PA-42 - essentially a turboprop-powered Navajo. This thread reminds me of the day that I decided to buy a Huey. The IIXL is the winner in terms of payload/range and loading envelope. Copyright 2023 Flying Media. Pratt & Whitney and several of the companies that specialize in PT6 maintenance have field service reps who would be delighted to get you started on your support education. 0000007543 00000 n This listing was posted on Jul 15, 2019. There is The lack of suitable piston engines, however, was a major factor in the failure of Pipers own Fat Albert, the Pocono. Maximum operating weight is 500 pounds higher than the Cheyenne II. That engine runs a little hotter than before the hot section and burns a little more jet-A, but now it matches the left engine more closely. The PIPER Cheyenne II has a 3,705' balanced field length and 2,482' landing distance. maximum 30 percent power setting becomes apparent from reading the last page This is where a wife (Cathy) with an MBA and an interest in equity, return on investment, residual value, hourly costs, etc. When the IIXL was announced, Thomas Gillespie, then Pipers head of marketing, was asked if production of the II was going to end. aircraft design. PA-42 Pipper Cheyenne 400LS -Instalation - Fly Away Simulation To sweeten the deal, the Cheyenne I was some $100,000 less than the 620-shp model. 8 answers and 5413 views Jun 15 2004. Although becoming an Earth-rounder has been postponed by the COVID-19 crisis, we are looking forward to completing the mission in a post-pandemic world. They arent. Passenger comfort is good in our aircraft. and apparent space. In the meantime, look for a pair of low-time engines (either -11s, -28s or, improbably, -135As) that we might pick up at a great price. Weve done the interior its still beautiful and painted the airplane in colors we like. The yoke will beat your knees purple, especially in any sort of crosswind. The 400LS has 100-hour inspection intervals, engine midlife inspections are due at 1,500 hours and overhaulscome at 3,000 hours. Garrett TPE 331-engined airplanes, such as the Aero Commanders, Mitsubishi MU-2s or even Swearingen (Fairchild) Merlin II and III models are a totally different category and set of considerations. I just saw a perfectly flyable Beechjet get parted out because the cost of the upcoming service interval essentially totaled the aircraft. The aircraft The King Air models did not win the speed race but won big on their luxurious interiors and ramp presence. PAY4 Executive transport aircraft. These discussions open up even more variables. Think it would meet your range requirements. Production was halted after just one year of production. Perhaps this is because we came out of a 602P Aerostar with a multiplicity of problems and had experienced every in-flight emergency possible with it. first flew in October 1969. In that later issue, Kelly discusses a further change to the system Piper made with the 1980 model year: the addition of a bobweight to dampen long-period longitudinal oscillation tendencies. N7222F boasts RVSM approval, ADSB-In and Out, Garmin Active Traffic, weather radar, two G600s and two GTN750s completely integrated with the original jet-level Collins APS 65 Autopilot, bringing its automation to 21st century standards. N40MV | 1985 PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS on Aircraft.com I find an airplane I like, switch to flightaware.com and check out the ground speeds on several trips. 820 degrees C and it is necessary to have fingers poised over the fuel With a full fuel capacity of 3,825 pounds, a fuel load of 2,750 pounds allows an hour of IFR reserve accommodating 1,300 pounds of payload for this typical trip. There is also included. One design problem needs a full explanation, however. It frequently and for no reason pops the circuit breaker, usually at FL 250 or higher, so that it becomes a trifle brisk in the cabin. Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by NadJ, Aug 9, 2021. 0000093501 00000 n This trait can be traced to the Cheyennes roots in the Navajo airframe. 0000014026 00000 n Building a turboprop isnt as simple as hanging a pair of PT6s on a piston airframe, as Piper found out with the Cheyenne. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. I cant give you a reason for the unstable phugoid, but only comment that it does exist and has to be dealt with by the pilot. blowing straight down the large tailpipe makes it harder for the heat to 1985 Piper Cheyenne 400LS for sale - hangar67.com Dick Karl is a cancer surgeon who appreciates the beauty and science involved in both surgery and flying. Below FL 180, the aircraft tends to become more stable, but the phugoid instability is still obvious, and with each oscillation it becomes worse. 0000081891 00000 n At any speed less than 130 knots, the aircraft starts to oscillate. For both individual and corporate owners, the early Cheyennes make sense as step-up purchases, as long as the combination of low price, low maintenance, and high-performance remains in vogue. I don't have experience of flying any but from what I do know, the LS400 will climb much higher and appears to be a more 'normal' and comfortable airplane to operate. But there have been a host of updates and there are a long list of recommended care and maintenance procedures that are key elements of keeping your powerplants up there with the fleet average. Bills a no-nonsense guy with a way of cutting through the noise to get to the essence of a choice. Full Reverse allows for landing in shorter distances than even many single and piston twins. It still does. of the manual under: 'Tips for operators'. Thank you very much for sharing your love of the 400LS. It carries a big load in a comfortable cabin at high speeds for long distances on a miserly amount of fuel. Deliveries of production Cheyenne IIIs began on June 30, 1980. There are five basic Piper Cheyenne models. The Piper Cheyenne 400LS is uniquely positioned to adapt to our various missions in payload, distance and speed. This equates to six adults and 250 pounds of luggage. The early Cheyennes were later refined with some aerodynamic improvements, but the PT6-28s produced only 10 to 15 percent faster cruise speed than their piston siblings and at a much higher fuel consumption. Reg: N7222F photos. 0000010782 00000 n There is one accident that occurred to a PA-31T under similar circumstances to the two that called the SAS into question: loss of control during an instrument departure in fog. No one seems to be able to explain the reason. Maximum operating altitude for the I and II was 29,000 feet, but in 1983 the II was approved for 31,000, as was the IIXL. On the other hand, we were totally unprepared for the $4,000 annunciator-panel repair, the frequent heater and air-conditioner repairs and the little valve that controls the bleed air pressure to the boots and gyros that goes for $6,500 and sits under the floor in the passenger compartment. aberration must have given rise to the big Cheyennes. The IIXL is best in terms of leg room for everyone. History Whether internal disagreement affected development or not, the Cheyenne had a long gestation period. For operators of the PA-31T, pitch instability should not be a concern if the airplane pitch system is modified to the latest specification (including the bobweight), the SAS is maintained properly, weight and balance limitations are observed and current limiting power settings and airspeeds are complied with. 0000186693 00000 n Turboprop Aircraft. legal hyenas and their pursuit of product liability claims. Back in [3], Due to its top speed over 400 mph, it was renamed the Cheyenne 400LS when Lear Siegler owned Piper, then the Cheyenne 400. So we now face the dilemma confronting many fellow airplane owners, whether they be the proud possessor of a Cessna 172 or a Falcon 50: what to do with a great airplane of a certain age that is bumping up against another mandated and expensive intervention. What could. While there are variations with equipment options, when lightly loaded cg is toward the forward limit and the airplanes are nose heavy. Rotol propellers (whose diameter is the same as the chassis length of a The dominating features are the pair of broad Dowty Single pilot, fast, can haul, mx and acquisition cost cheaper then a king air. Pressure differential is 5.5 psi for all three versions. Oh, my, would I love one. Major design revisions were made, and in October 1969 the prototype PA-31T-essentially a PA-31P with turboshaft engines-flew. In 1975, he acknowledged many shortcomings and promised major improvements would take place in quality control and customer support. None of these occurrences was surprising. 0000012000 00000 n The Cheyenne and other sophisticated, high performance airplanes will each your lunch and/or your purse. N3Rp '{A. rw:sr]m]6Afu {tih8d0yc13gix,H/SH\&5`X)#oGt|G&o4HqxZdA'{r nQfo4[gt)S0p1&_vyv|Wy\WZ7m e,Yp,;Fc_Mf]F>o|nGivVc'/5oW#TRx=* executive turbine fraternity. 0000004128 00000 n Deliveries began in early 1974 - a long time 0000068591 00000 n We knew they were coming and prepared for them. Same for the props. The computer also determines stall margin, commands stall warning signals and provides input to a simple, cockpit mounted angle of attack indicator dubbed the stall margin indicator. bizjet. Our company operated a Cheyenne II for almost three years, and I was principal pilot in the airplane for about 300 hours. All rights reserved. My most trusted advisor is Bill Turley, a friend for 25 years and owner of our maintenance base, Aircraft Engineering in Bartow, Florida. Empty weight is 6837 lb (3101 kg) and maximum takeoff weight is 11,200 lb (5080 kg). Indeed, the 1980 Cheyenne, which was launched with a pair of Pratt & Whitney PT6A-41 engines, was supposed to Piper Cheyenne 400LS (Pa42) - Mullers Many airplanes have artificial aids for undesirable or unacceptable handling characteristics. Standard operating procedure In Kellys words: None of these planes should be running around without this modification.). compresses and clearance decreases. 0000173169 00000 n The Cheyenne I is powered by two Pratt & Whitney PT6A-11 turboprop engines, each rated at 500 horsepower and with a maximum propeller speed of 2200 RPM. We have had a couple of engine problems, but discussions with our maintenance base, Des Moines Flying Center, have convinced us that all is well. The majority of the Cheyenne 400LS aircraft were fitted with nine seats, including a potty seat that can be completely enclosed by an accordion door neatly hidden in its furniture cabinet. Owner Comments My company has flown a 1983 Cheyenne I for two years now and we have over 900 hours on it. button. 181 89 The aircraft is not the easiest to keep straight on the centre line. There is a lot to recommend the single turboprops. As with the Cheyenne I, there is no stability augmentation system. Great aircraft, fast, long range and goes high had several times after traffic was given as twin turboprop at FL 410 disbelieving B747 drivers. Although the undercarriage legs have been At 24,000 feet, such an alteration results in a speed increase from 229 to 275 knots. 0000094113 00000 n Its power-to-weight ratio of 6 lbs/hp allows for a climb rate of 3,200 feet per minute and a cruise speed of 350 knots. As with any design, there are specific, recommended or even mandatory maintenance procedures. Other records later set by the 400LS, again piloted by Yeager in 400LS N4118Y (later reregistered as N46HL) for the C-1e Group 2 class, were: Miami-to-Boston, Miami-to-New York City, San Francisco-to-Charleston, West Virginia, San Francisco-to-Cincinnati, San Francisco-to-Los Angeles, New York City-to-Paris, Washington, DC-to-Paris and Gander-Paris. Careless operation has the obvious consequences. 0000042969 00000 n 0000022484 00000 n We are not well pleased with the parts availability. I've flown Piper Cheyenne I, II XL and 400LS a number of years ago. In this condition, you could take off, climb to 29,000 ft, cruise at 250 KTAS or so, and have an IFR range of about 1,170 nautical miles and an endurance of 4 hours 30 minutes. (It should be noted that the Cheyenne III, which is an entirely different airplane, does not share these troubles.). What Does a Pilot Require To Remain Current in an Aircraft Requiring a Type Rating? Best/worst Compared to the mainstay of the turboprop fleet, the King Air series, any of the Cheyenne series is a bargain. Some owners report that the 400LS lacks the build quality compared to a King Air and its rarity can cause head scratches from mechanics who may never have seen one. In the normal category all aerobatic maneuvers including spins are prohibited. Dubbed the T-1040, it was developed as part of Pipers air taxi/commuter marketing effort and certified in 1982. 0000022670 00000 n I know this airplane. Some pilots referred to the narrow windshield of the Cheyenne and P Navajo as a tank slit. What would I like to improve? Changes Many elements of the first Cheyenne fit the Mickey Mouse appellation that was applied to all Piper airplanes. How about a Cheyenne I that has those big engines? The Piper PA-31T stability augmentation system (SAS) adds variable elevator force via a variable tension downspring. after the King Air was launched. My smugness about predicting economic developments has suffered some indignities lately, so guessing about the residual value of a 40-year-old $600,000 Cheyenne versus a 20-year-old $900,000 Meridian 10 years from now is an estimation for which I am neither qualified nor temperamentally suited. The Cessna Citation became the economical jet of choice for business travel. 1C::_DbFgQPF:y$mtC1EwBR}Ui`*DQh&KSPm{hnh'ZSO,4E=Tg:v(Npx.:I'=. Why put that much money into an ancient airframe? It is an aeroplane that dies everything well. Visibility from the cockpit is a real shortcoming until the 1980 model year.
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