Im not sure what you mean by normal. I find it absolutely bizarre that the intelligence of kids who dont fit in is often ignored. Kylounet is drinking a CAMBIER Double Galaxy by Brasserie Cambier at Terroir Alternatif. Ive looked into this topic myself, not professionally or anything-just as an interested lay researcher with a science/statistics background- and had a less well-articulated formulation of the tower vs. foundation model in mind for awhile, too. To some extent, incompatible advantages can stack by affecting entirely different things (one runner with salutary mutations affecting his legs, his lungs, and his adrenal gland) But to some extent they cant. Low IQ fathers are less likely to be available due to death/imprisonment/not being around anymore/maybe not even knowing who the father is. About impulse control, there are two strategies being selected for here, one featuring low impulse control(the classic idiocracy strategy) and another (the religious socially conservative strategy) featuring high impulse control: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352250X18300976. Wow! E.g. This is just the cystic fibrosis thing again, isnt it? I think this was also true for some genes supposedly predisposing to ADHD and Schizophrenia. (my son was a Caesarian delivery) but that was because his head (=brain?) children who previously had normal or even remarkable verbal abilities for their age suddenly losing words. IQb + low genetic load : extremely high intelligence, slight or undetectable autistic tendencies, strongly tenchnically inclined @Cliff He has the making of a superb engineer. My relatively uninformed opinion would be: what the mutations might be affecting in lower-order terms are some subtle parameters of prior mapping, or something like a lower threshold for whats considered to be sufficient fit for model validity, or what kinds of sensory inputs to give particular significance to. because it is in line with the current prevalence of autism diagnoses in children, but a bit lower. Both moderate to high IQ. Get the latest business insights from Dun & Bradstreet. Humans have been selectively breeding themselves since the dawn of civilization, even if we werent consciously aware of it; reproductively speaking, the traits that are selected for in an organized society are bound to differ than those that wouldve been selected for in the wild. If I suggest autism is effectively what we call people whose mental resolution (in the sense of pixels per inch) is too high, would that make sense to you? Knowing how much of the genetic variance in intelligence (say IQ for an easy measure) is additive is probably good enough to figure out how off the purely linear assumption is. I guess in a context-specific sense, normal is being defined as not-autistic? My wifes father (an engineer) is likely autistic. The difference between high and low functioning autistic children is significant. We often joke that my son learned English as a second language, it appeared that his primary language acquisition pathway just wasnt there. As for genetics, well, my IQ is ~135, and my wifes is right there with me (~125). This is true in a sense, but also alters what we mean by normal. How exactly are you defining normal? My parents were optometrists. I think youd need to ask them about their internal experiences, but Id guess a lot of the people you find unusually functional arent putting a lot of effort into fitting in. Now imagine that someone was in that condition but *couldnt* turn it off. She was born with the cord around her neck, and we had respiratory specialists on hand to assist. Anyway, if the data were there, I would suggest an alternate explanation that a significant portion of gender dysphoria is socially mediated, and the autistic are isolated from the social phenomenon. people that are 30% autistic have average IQ X. Autism, and Neurodiversity. As a practical matter of course these disorder clusters can easily overlap and often do, as seen in the most recent DSM when they allowed co-diagnosis of autism and ADHD for the first time (by popular demand pretty much!). Two of our three kids had extremely large heads as babies. The damn thing has basically come true! It was my first thought, too admittedly followed by the second thought wait, no, theyll have thought of that one ages ago. * Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it. Other times, the conversations would seem weird as hell in most placesdiscussions of physics or evolution or game theory or genetics or whatever, with a high background level of assumed knowledge. Because they lacked the development of the auditory processing, it was very draining for them because it mostly came across as a large amount of noise. But the Gardner study also ceilings off at 90th percentile intelligence, so at this point Im not sure what to tell these people. One possibility would be something like a tower-vs-foundation model. So it may not just be something like too much of a good thing but the relationship between the seed parameters (genes) and the result (brain architecture/intelligence) is something thats chaotic rather than simple. Superficially, this seems more plausible to me than the tower vs. foundation model, especially since its type of phenomenon we already observe for better-understood things the brain does, e.g. Insofar as autism has a coherent definition, it is a category that embraces a variety of behavioral and neural processing anomalies. In other countries including those in developed areas like Western Europe and North America IQ has been on the rise. From a certain perspective, it merges with normal. For this reason, they dont tend to hang out with normal people much. Is there anything you can do in terms of testing or practice to reduce your risk? That would give me more than enough money to give the middle finger to all the ignorant normies in our politically correct society, with plenty left over to hire some bodyguards and build mechanical defense systems to insulate me from any of the outraged pearl-clutching idiots who decided to use physical violence against me when their threat of social sanctioning wasnt enough. 2. Let me see if I can dig up one of the studies that I saw mentioned. IQb + high genetic load: autism with lowish IQ, always diagnosed as autist Everyone else, enslaved or not, kept dying off working the fields. 1), in which the genetic architecture of ASD seems to be different from one individual to another (Huguet et al. This can best be understood through a tower-versus-foundation model where higher intelligence that outstrips the ability of some mysterious foundation to support it will result in autism (25% confidence), 6. Normal includes insecurities, anxieties, caring what other people think. EDIT: Comparing intelligence to running fast understates the issue, it is much more like a complex rules-based game such as football, baseball, etc. I favour the Maxander description of the genetic defect in autism, too much brain development can be bad. -.-). Ill share some info that might or might be helpful, since its just an anecdote. However, I wouldnt be surprised if a statistically high proportion of people here are autistic or have autistic family members. So by comparison, I could imagine that theres a bunch of gene variants that increase limb length, and that if you have a certain number of these you get some nice Usain Bolt proportions that help you win races. Their intelligence tends to be more imbalanced than neurotypicals, so IQ tests (which rely on an assumption that most forms of intelligence are correlated) are less applicable. Autism measures may miss more women with autism.. Is it because that is a trait many people here associate with passing for normal? My original post talked about dual axes, functionality and intelligence, with non-functional high intelligence becoming, effectively, a distinct kind of low intelligence. It would not surprise me if a lot of non-neurotypical children were doing similar things, and that it poses genuine problems for studies like those discussed above. Most of my coworkers (except for the youngest ones) are married, and many have children. The bit about Comey honestly just seems like partisan sniping to me. Strongly agree. A bit of motivation before asking a question: my boss has a daughter. When she was three, she had symptoms of autism. Agree with your post, and especially with this part. Above a certain level of gain, the system _wants_ to break down. Giving What We Can is a charitable movement promoting giving some of your money to the developing world or other worthy causes. I am convinced there are a lot more genius now, but : Seattle Anxiety Specialists are a therapy practice helping people overcome anxiety and related mental health issues (eg GAD, OCD, PTSD) through evidence based interventions and self-exploration. I dont have time to go through all the links this morning but wanted to add some more studies. If anything, theres a slight positive correlation between the two. If Ronemus isnt missing some obscure de novo mutations, then people who get autism solely by accumulation of common (usually IQ-promoting) variants still end up less intelligent than average. Or rather, that the concept of Asperger autism is more related to giftedness, and not to autism. Im really curious, how many people identify with this statement? Because he was as skilled as me, and had real muscles. Even if intelligence is analogous to running fast or having a good immune system, the tower/foundation model is still workable. Its not because simply being small or being large or having a flat face are inherently unhealthy traits; there are other species that are much smaller than Yorkies, much larger than Great Danes, and have flatter faces than Pugs, without suffering any problems as a result. Yes. Or maybe not, because the researchers just act like they are cognitively distinct subtypes anyway, so it might not make much difference in practice. Or in the case of plants, their leaf structures are generated by a fractal pattern, and even small changes in the parameters of that fractal cause large changes in the ultimate pattern in a way that is chaotic and difficult to predict. However, once it exceeds a certain threshold, the network starts learning things that dont make any sense, and then when it tries to correct those mistakes it goes too far in the other direction again. If you are an expert in X, and the popular understanding of X is X, you will end up having the exact same conversation about X every time. Perhaps whats happening is that the genetic factors passed along are responsible for generally supporting IQ, but high IQ parents are having children later in life for some reason (more years of schooling than average, early stage demanding careers, saving a nest egg before starting a family). To the best of my knowledge, the whole Idiocracy concept (humans are selecting against intelligence because smart people have fewer children) is basically nothing more than a just-so story made up by concerned pseudo-intellectuals. Some people worry about assortative mating in Silicon Valley: highly analytical tech workers marry other highly analytical tech workers. Since the definition of autism (as noted by Scott and discussed elsewhere in the comments) is primarily symptomatic, that means you only get the diagnosis if you display symptomatic behaviors meeting a certain noticeable threshold. In the graph of relatives, are autists typically on the border or inside of high-IQ regions? required to answer an examiners quetsions[sic]. If you're interested in testing yourself and contributing to their project, check out their questions page. If the foundation isnt strong enough for the tower, the system fails, you develop autism, and you get a collection of symptoms possibly including low intelligence. Non-genetic factors. And then theres Jacob Collier, who can detect, and accurately sing, the difference between an A at 440Hz and at 432Hz, and that allows him to do stuff like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPZn4x3uOac) where he sings a 10-part harmonisation of In the Bleak Midwinter in which hes gradually shifting the key-centre upwards throughout, and then for the last verse he performs a 4-chord pivot to a key halfway between G and G# on the scale hes in at the time, by taking advantage of slight mis-definition in the equal-tempered approximations to those pivot chords that allows him to quickly shift to an entirely out-of-tune system (if you switched directly, it would just sound like trash) in just four chords without it sounding odd. They propose that the reason evolution favors autism genes is that they generally increase intelligence. I have read before that age of parents increases risk of autism. Im reminded of the Simon Baron-Cohen theory about autism being like an extreme male brain in some sense. Altruisto is a browser extension so that when you shop online, a portion of the money you pay goes to effective charities (no extra cost to you). autism is effectively what we call people whose mental resolution (in the sense of pixels per inch) is too high. Many definitions of autism center around forms of poor functioning which are correlated with low intelligence. The optimal value is at 10.0 (for example). So one model is that we should see two things happening at once, as a result of the assortative mating by IQ thats been going on for a couple generations now in the US: a. unsurprisingly, ID is inversely correlated with IQ; ADHD also shows a strong inverse correlation with IQ. But extra cash helps pay for contest prizes, meetup expenses, and me spending extra time blogging instead of working. There is also some link to male sex, I do believe that there are higher levels of males with low intelligence autism. Norwegian founders with an international team on a mission to offer the equivalent of a Norwegian social safety net globally available as a membership. 47.3k members in the slatestarcodex community. We start with a presentation of a summary of the article, and then discuss in a friendly atmosphere. It makes sense to me that the microglia that are involved in both the elimination and growth of synapses could end up producing some brains that are less functional and some that are more functional vs. the wild type based on how the extra pruning is done, what parts of the brain its done in, and when its done. Doing some [fundamental] discovery is harder and harder. ASD core diagnostic symptoms are not uniquely linked and are only very rarely expressed without nondiagnostic symptoms. FWIW, anecdata in the autistic communit suggests that autistic people are more likely than average to be genderqueer in some fashion, but theres no anecdata correlating this with chromosomal sex i.e. Drink your Brawndo! Id cheerfully get in bed with the military-industrial complex -in fact, Id probably be rock-hard the whole time. Note that billionaires in America are still vulnerable to (using a topical example) wealth taxes, and abroad billionaires in Russia / China must play the cuddle up to Putin / Xi or die / get put in a camp game. you havent seen any support for Idiocracy? This is not the whole story, and even cases of autism that are caused entirely or mostly by normal genetics are associated with unusually low IQ (80% confidence), 5. Other possible explanation(s): Some kind of anxiety about doing things wrong, combined with worrying about whether one is supposed to be able to do a thing yet. Interesting. First, the studies. Disguised in that almost is a very slight tendency for fathers to be unusually intelligent, plus a (statistically insignificant) tendency for them to be unusually unintelligent. Revenge can be fun just ask Taylor Swift! Maybe I just dont understand what you mean by normal. Sample: literally the whole of scotland. These questions interest me because I know a lot of people who are bright nerdy programmers married to other bright nerdy programmers, and sometimes they ask me if their children are at higher risk for autism. If so, wed expect a much higher rate of female-to-male transgender identity among people on the autism spectrum who, ah, lack that Y chromosome. Good clarifying question. I believe this is also the case for artificial neural networks, unless you are in pathological regimes that are too unstable to be useful. the classic stereotype.). And so those are genes that show up as giving you a bump in your IQ in populations genetic studies. Autism, rationality and intelligence. threshold and massive achievement, massive achievement should have exploded in recent decades. Several studies have shown a genetic link between autism and intelligence; genes that contribute to autism risk also contribute to high IQ. This makes a very strong auditory learner. Reading about this seems a little bit strange at first, but I must say, I teach in the mathematics department of a university, and I observe this everyday in my best students. Given the numerous different genetic correlates to autism, if one wants to preserve the diagnostic validity of autism by finding a single etiology, one might hypothesize that all of these genes affect a narrow set of brain circuitry in a similar way, but as discussed in the Waterhouse paper people have tried to do this and (per her lit review) failed to do so. GS-14 speaking, and Im not exactly normal either. Virtually everything has a failure mode. The Gardner study seems to suggest its a very weakly elevated risk, maybe only 1.1x or 1.2x relative risk. If you keep stacking up genes that in isolation would improve your running speed, but that involve trade-offs or may have adverse interactions with each other by both modifying the same chemical pathway or something Eventually you have too many and things collapse. While autism (or at least diagnosed autism) is rarer in girls, its very much not unheard of. https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/05/07/5-httlpr-a-pointed-review/ The Gardner study seems to suggest its a very weakly elevated risk, maybe only 1.1x or 1.2x relative risk. This always seemed nonsensical to me, because muscle is muscle; if two people are equally large, it shouldnt matter whether they were born that way or got that way through exercise. Too much difference from wild type synaptic pruning and youve got pathology in addition to the possible, but not certain, optimization. He taught himself the alphabet before he was 1 year old. (2) Genes associated with autism arent being selected for You underestimate the potential of a good emulation, I think. A simple model might be something like the genes for color vision. Check out their free anti-anxiety guide here. I think (as an interested amateur, not an expert) that the most plausible answer is that human intelligence depends on getting lots of stuff right. And second, doesnt it say that in the bottom graph, the dotted and solid lines represent unadjusted and adjusted estimates, respectively? So is she a non-serious case? In this model, theres a ceiling to your intellectual ability thats set by each of those components. I would recommend having girls through IVF if that is legally allowed in your jurisdiction? Optimizing a complicated biological machinery thing to do whatever intelligence is most likely a very difficult thing for that machine to do. No need for (extremely valid) concerns about whether IQ tests accurately measure (normal/low) functioning autistics, e.g. On that and other evidence, its pretty clear the above article isnt talking about autistics like me. Energy/perseverance/drive and other harder to measure factors. A reasonable guess there is that the smartest engineer on the pyramid project was not much dumber than the smartest engineer working on the Apollo projectthey came up with brilliant one-off solutions to their problems, which didnt stick around because there wasnt much use for them in day-to-day building problems. but heres the thing, I cant come back from the store with six bags of graham crackers and confidently say alright, were gonna make a BUNCH of smores now. To really make a lot, we need all marshmallows, chocolate, AND graham crackersand adding a bunch of one factor does absolutely nothing, and may in fact hinder the whole operationsimilarly, its fallacious to suggest that because some factors dial up, they must all be good things that should be dialed up without limitthat crackling fire is a necessary component, but it doesnt need to go any higherif it does, if we have a big ole bonfire for example, the whole process actually gets harder. Kraus et al. If females have a higher average baseline social competence, it would stand to reason that even the impaired girls would remain above the diagnosis threshold in greater numbers. These things are incredibly synergistic in some people, allowing them to do exceptional things, we notice thisso we start to associate them with one anotherbut the presence of one means absolutely nothing about the presence of any others in general, and you need to scale up all or at least many of them to get any good returnsworse, some factors may not need to go any higher, otherwise theyll just be a hindrance. There are plenty of incredibly smart and simultaneously charismatic people out there. Most successful businessmen. People diagnosed with autism are less intelligent than average (~100% confidence, leaving aside definitional complications), 3. could equally be applied to people who arent especially intelligent. If relatives of autists are smarter, then that sounds to me like a regression towards the mean. it separates ASD, ADHD, and ID (intellectual disorder). In Graph A, we see that if a child has autism (but not intellectual disability), their likelihood of having a father with any particular IQ (orange line) is almost the same as the likelihood of a neurotypical child having a father of that IQ (dotted line). Precision of it? Some good story make much more in our appreciation of who is a genius than anything else. Slate Star Codex For, Then Against, High-Saturated-Fat Diets Posted on March 10, 2020 by Scott Alexander I. Question the first. Low IQ people are more likely to end up dead or in jail, and are less likely to be in stable nuclear families. Theres a lot of work left to do to sort out what being autistic actually means.
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