With a decent lever arm to work with you can be both perfectly stable in level flight and very agile in pitch and yaw controls. Imagine that first plane but with the bubble cockpit and the old style round intakes. They sometimes coincide with ailerons on some, more space-economical, aircraft. Cookie Notice Then at the top, we'll put one tail fin, centred on the end of the fuselage. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. In fact, nothing will happen at all, and that's probably bad, so put an air intake on your plane anyway. Build yourself a plane. 2. zombie2u, This one is balanced with reaction wheels. Are there any canonical examples of the Prime Directive being broken that aren't shown on screen? From my experience using a panther it starts to lose speed after 15-16 kms, a more suitable cruising height is 9-13km. (KSP 1.9.1) Subscribe - http://www.youtube.com/c/MikeAben?sub-confirmation=1 Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/MikeAbenPatreon supporters receive early, ad-free, access to videos, kOS and craft files, and more. Absolute Beginner's Playlist - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB3Ia8aQsDKgGHrNZnz2ca8NVuyj7eHXc Craft File - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cfFBMm4EBhDh8mQ2UuOn9f5DL6jBgM05/view?usp=drivesdk0:00 - Introduction1:42 - Planning our Science Collection3:36 - Starting our Build4:49 - Changing Symmetry Mode6:40 - Adding Fuel8:07 - Adding Jet Engines \u0026 Air Intakes9:10 - Adding Wings \u0026 Elevons10:55 - Adding a Tail12:03 - Understanding Center of Lift16:24 - Understanding Control Surfaces18:31 - Adding Landing Gear22:25 - Summary Firstly you're going to want to make a short fuselage. But be careful and don't crash it! What i do when i build a plane (except the tings others allready mentioned) is playing a lot with the Fuel sliders on fuel tanks in SPH and then moving the tanks and adding removing "balance mass" to the plane untill the COM doesnt move at all relatively to COL, no matter how much fuel i have with tanks. Your plane is almost finished. Keep pitching up as you approach stall speed. First off, make sure you are using the newest version of Kerbal Space Program, and it is NOT pirated, when you buy it, the devs get helped out. Valve Corporation. This item will only be visible in searches to you, your friends, and admins. Just sounds like the engines can't get enough air, in KSP high speed also generates air intake so I'm guessing what is happening is that you have the initial speed to get to altitude but the lack of air at altitude is starving the engine resulting in lower speed which further reduces air intake and it cascades until either the engine shuts down or you return to denser atmosphere at a lower altitude. Then go into the move part thing with the "2" key in the editor, remove the degree setting, and then drag them apart manually and position parts with fine tuning that way. When braking most of the power should be on the rear, or you may see Kerbin up close. And start small. All rights reserved. there aren't any aerodynamics when you are a kraken scientist like me. I've covered all my bases, as far as I can tell: It seems if I turn off SAS, I can prevent the oscillation from starting as it's initiated by some control input, whether from me or SAS, but then the plane veers off the runway until it hits something. On the other hand, atmospheric craft are superb for exploring it for the very same reason you can scout for the perfect spot for your base, then land precisely there. Wings on the front of the craft can cause pitching and rolling, causing you to hold W constantly. Go ahead and make a new save file or use an old one, it doesn't matter! 2023 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. On the other hand, something with a wide wingspan but narrow wings (like the connector Cs) will pitch easily but need more oomph to roll. Such a simple and basic tip, but so unknown throughout KSP. Then: I hope you've found this short tutorial useful. They have in common that it's easy to tweak the balance by moving things around, rather than having to add or remove pieces. Do you have a picture? You know you don't have enough if you're getting engine flame-outs on take-off or, worse, landing. Your airspeed will also fall. Have fun with your S/VTOL craft and don't forget there are more ways to do them as well, including helicopter-like things that don't fly aerodynamically at all. 2) Then add the pitch control surfaces. In a twin-boom design, you have one hoverjet at the nose, and one in each of the booms. Is there such a thing as "right to be heard" by the authorities? Upload or insert images from URL. In the crash log, it says that at 00:00:00 there is "Lift-Off!" Now stick a jet engine on the back, and don't forget to put an air intake or other air-sucking device (you can find them in aerodynamics) on the airplane. It's said that takeoffs are optional but landings are mandatory. Paste as plain text instead, Smaller wings on the cockpit can be good. ps2. The more intakes added, the higher a plane can go before a flame-out, which makes multiple intakes a must on SSTO spaceplanes. If the fuel flows from the. They sometimes coincide with elevators. Note the landing area markers. principle. the front should be close to double the rear gears strength) And Good Guide! Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. You may be correct and that 3 engine plane is a lemon. That would oscillate slowly between 16000m and 17000m but was otherwise fully controllable. You should have something called an "Elevon 1"; this will be the moving part for your wings. The Center of Gravity is ALWAYS above Center of Lift. Air-breathing hoverjetsneedintakes. The juno 8-pack in a mk2 bay is my go-to, plus, a single Engine nacelle will provide enough air for them all and fuel is self-contained, making the design easy to scale for larger craft. This page was last edited on 17 December 2021, at 13:14. That should just about do it for basic planes. Adding a vertical intake helps. But it should most definitely be in front of it, and preferably NEVER move behind it, even with empty fuel tanks. This guide will show how to make simple-ish planes and other aerodynamic tips. A bigger twin-boom design using two arrays of 18 Junos on each boom and a single array of 9 on the nose. If it doesn't, he can just make the stabilizer bigger; instead of turning down control authority, just add more fixed wing. Can you check what happens if you swap in larger gear? I've found a few body plans to be especially amenable to conversion to VTOL. Your link has been automatically embedded. Powered by Invision Community. To do this, take a few barrels of your jet fuel, stick them on the back of your aircraft. Your previous content has been restored. Simply changing the intakes made it fly completely out of control and impossible to land. It is also said that a good landing is one you can walk away from. I haven't found a sure-fire solution to this, but I think I know what causes it. A Mk1 Cockpit, two Mk 1 Liquid Fuel Tanks, and then cap the back with a round nose cone (use the A/D keys to rotate it as necessary). But it flies horribly, it's all over the place even with SAS on it doesn't fly even remotely stable. Interesting, though even being exponential theres a chance it starts out so small it takes longer than a takeoff to reach noticeable levels. This can be most helpful when transitioning to or from level flight. I really hope that this will help you, if you would like more tutorials, click these links: Hello, today I will be showing you how to make an absolutely perfect space plane! I have not had much success usingonly horizontally oriented intakes - the engines do not have sufficient air flow to generate enough thrust to actually lift the craft. Cookie Notice Part of the reason I like the standard canards so much, though, is because they're an all-moving surface, which means you get the maximum possible profile changes with your commands. While I couldn't accept this one because ultimately it was changing wheel positioning that increased stability enough to elegantly take off, I don't think it's unreasonable to imagine that the oscillations originated or were exacerbated through asymmetric thrust. So yes, it most definitely is possible. It only takes a minute to sign up. This would certainly have to be revised once Breaking Ground drops, those parts are extremely relevant for VTOL. jet engine efficiency in this game is based on built in thrust curves. Remembering the FW TA152 and the U2 I put long wings on it and while its turn rate makes an airliner look like a fighter plane it is stable enough at 19000m. In vanilla KSP, wings have a predefined lift factor. So you want to make a plane but all your contraptions explode on the runway, crash into the runway a few seconds after taking off, crash into the side of the runway, crash into the ocean after doing a tight turn or otherwise fail to do what you intended? a craft that's designed to fly aerodynamically, using lift produced by lifting surfaces. Elevators are usually places in the front or back of an aircraft, and their function, as the name implies, is to change the pitch of the nose up and down. Build yourself a plane. Why don't we use the 7805 for car phone chargers? Your, Add enough downward-pointing jets to lift the plane, as symmetrically as you can around the, Adjust the thrust limiter on the fore (or aft) hoverjets until the thrust vector lines up with the. I have a simple Vtol SSTO that can take off with junos, hit LKO with rapiers, maybe with 100 m/s left on the rocket side, then return to spaceport and have sufficient liquid fuel for vertical landing. 2023 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. @TheEnvironmentalist No clue, but it doesn't need to be much because it's a feedback loop. Try not to make your first airplanes longer than 3 MK1 fuselages. The Kerbal Space Program subreddit. Mach speed - 343 mps. When off the ground at a sufficient altitude to clear obstacles, main jets ON, When at sufficient speed for aerodynamic flight, hoverjets OFF, pods CLOSED, gear UP. Turns out it was wheel positioning! Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. We're also not discussing helicopters here, because stock kerbals have not invented the propeller, and stock propellers are a whole big topic of their own. Yes, although they have only been flown with nearly full tanks. For more information, please see our Mount your rear wheels out on the wings for better stability. Thanks to this guide I did my first ever landing on the VAB helipad! Their hoverjets just have a TWR of less than 1.0. May 19, 2013 in KSP1 Tutorials. You may need to add several on bigger craft. The two engines have been mounted every imaginable way with the same result: Over the wings, on the fuselage, on girder segments, on the wingtips, etc. Throttle up to full, activate SAS, stage to start the engine (you'll only have one stage here), and start rolling (or sliding) down the runway! Now, imagine it forward, it will stall like a REAL plane and will go forward, Front is on the left, and back is on the right. the vertical stabilizer only handles yaw? You arent doing anything wrong. Now for wings, the "Wing Connector Type B" is the largest you have so far; connect a set of those where the centre of mass is. For the CoM / CoL relationship to get a stable-yet-maneuverable craft, I'd recommend doing the tweaks in two stages. A slight "inwards" tilt on your wings (5 degrees or less) will improve stability hugely and will cause your plane to slowly correct itself in flight, also if you're using large control surfaces at high speeds then the result is obvious. I decided to look into that two intakes thing, and it turns out to make 11-12 m/s difference at 19,000m with my plane. There are some really useful tidbits here which deserve some credit. TO achieve the easisest way to balance the fuel tanks i never put usable fuel tank in where i cant move ti easily eg. Because they're fun and educational and you can. 1. For more information, please see our Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. These tend to handle . From your description of your plane I would check the following: You seem to have done a lot of things right. You can post now and register later. one last thing to verify: look from the side, observe where your center of mass is, then how the control surfaces are located relative to it and if the way they react to your controls makes sense (just try to pull up, down, or roll, on the runway without even starting the engine or disengaging brakes and watch which way the control surfaces move). Control your vector primarily with pitch, and your descent rate with throttle. She has a horrible turn rate and oscillates a couple of thousand meters at cruise, but it's flyable. Another pointer is to make your wings larger with the same amount of control surface. There are multiple ways to place them: Ailerons control the roll of the aircraft, and are (almost) always placed on the wings, as far out as possible and as centered (compared to the center of mass) as could be. They'll still happen but you'll have more time to get off the ground. I didn't try for 20000m as it probably wouldn't do well. First, @TheEnvironmentalist There is one more method I'm sure would work in your case, although I didn't write about it because I think it's, Hahaha absolutely right, but distinctly less satisfying. You've landed. Really nice overview and some incredible looking craft! 2023 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Have you set your control surfaces to only respond to appropriate controls? Pasted as rich text. What is this brick with a round back and a stud on the side used for? I've found that all my runway wiggling planes are caused by the wheels. Starting from something with MK3 hull without experience in MK1 will be an uphill battle. SAS sees this and turns the other way, which just causes the same problem in the other direction. The twin-boom design is one of my favourites, largely because it looks cool. The first challenge you're likely to hit is choice of hoverjet. The buttons show you CoM (Center of Mass, The anvil button), CoL (Center of, Lift, the canard button), and finally CoT (Center of Thrust, the thruster button). You've just unlocked "Aviation" tech, you have a bunch of contracts that require you to stay at low altitude, and you want to build your first plane? To do this, take a few barrels of your jet fuel, stick them on the back of your aircraft. https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=Tutorial:_Basic_Plane_Design&oldid=97453, In the front of the plane - In this position, the control surfaces are also known as , In the back of the plane, on the tail - The most usual position; usually, close to the rudder. At low speeds, this difference can be significant. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. The gear of the craft can also easily be overlooked, but can make the difference between flying masterpiece and soon-to-be-scraps. Intakes aren't something usually causing planes to fail, however need some thought. @gokcet @DANKTER I usually run my front wheel override friction on 0.3 when the front gear has steering disabled, it needs lower friction. Finally, it is really difficult to land a HTOL atmospheric craft on Duna because of the thin air: you'll be going really fast and terrain is really bumpy, so there's a huge risk of ending up as a big ball of fire, whereas it's very hard to land a conventional rocket lander precisely,like when you're aiming for your surface base. The CoG shouldn't be TOO far in front of the CoL, though. Thank you for posting this. That is really weird. Which was the first Sci-Fi story to predict obnoxious "robo calls"? Try reducing control authority (or even generally amount) of control surfaces - rudder, ailerons, the front wheel (maybe even make it a fixed one). Guest, You can also use fine controls with the Caps key, or change control surface sensitivity and assigned movements. You want to keep the CoL slightly behind the CoM, but not too much to not create torque. Larger ones have additional wing-mounted pods. You need enough intakes to keep them fed. (This is key to making a simple functional plane in KSP.) I don't have that other stuff yet. Touch down, CUT throttle, CUT engines, BRAKES ON. Another possibility to add to the existing answers (it's a bit hard to diagnose without seeing the plane) is that your landing gear might be insufficient for your plane's mass. 4. It is only visible to you. E.g. So basic, anyone can do it. I also had problems with a high altitude plane until I decided to follow the K.I.S.S. I moved the wheels from the tail to the fuel fuselage, and now she takes off like a dream! Congratulations! A basic tutorial on building a single prop plane. Wings have been flown both with and without struts, Wheel friction was even decreased to 0.3 for front wheel and increased to 2.0 for rear wheels, as per a tip found online. and our Body deformation can be caused by heavy parts, many parts connected together, or forces on the plane. Ill edit this sometime this week. You may need to change control authority to a negative value if they bend "the wrong way". Also stock fuel priority is in 1.2, allowing very stable CoM builds. Center of Mass - The average of all weight on the plane, this tool will show where gravity will pull . By If his problem is the plane doing backflips at a touch of 's', I wouldn't go with 'slightly'. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948095, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948668, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1934517923, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1335577943, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640213502, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640214586, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937826505, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937931692. Some more advanced tips you can use in the guide: In stock (no FAR) game to have a stable plane its also important to place control surfaces behind the wings, since their lift increases faster with AoA. [1] At this speed it is possible to circumnavigate Kerbin in about 29 minutes at an altitude of 40 km. Keeping it from crashing is usually the hard part. To start off with, use ANY cockpit you want, this tutorial is going to teach you how to make anything using anything, as long as you follow these directions. Now stick a jet engine on the back, and don't forget to put an . I had my rear wheels mounted on the tail, and it seems the taper of the tail messed up the angle of the wheels creating instability. The second one is likely to be aerodynamics if you just stick on some downward-pointing jets, you will find that they produce a lot of drag, which is going to be really inefficient. As crazy as this sounds, it's true, they really get helped out, and it's a really nice thing to do. Jets are good for a certain amount of static thrust but they don't allow quick control of your vertical speed because of their slow spool time. Pasted as rich text. 1. If additionally you can give it a controlled tilt and hold it there, then it'll start accelerating in that direction, like a helicopter. do you put them vertically or are they at an angle to the ground? Except for the parts regarding drag and number of intakes, everything else is still very valid. When you're close to it, INCREASE THROTTLE until your rate of descent nears zero. Next you need landing gear. Aim to get your speed below 50m/s, and have plenty of water ahead of you; keep the plane level, and pitch up to shed velocity. You want those tires facing straight to the ground! I have also used rocket-powered VTOLs on Duna. The CoL should be in the center or just behind the CoM. 4. However, don't put any fuel tanks on it yet, and empty any fuel-containing parts that you are using. If you believe your item has been removed by mistake, please contact, This item is incompatible with Kerbal Space Program. I haven't encountered oscillations like that in an airplane but I have encountered them aplenty in case of lightweight probes that have too strong control authority - too good RCS or reaction wheels, so I suspect the source here is the same. Adding more engines without adding intakes will make the problem worse. It flames out at 25,000. Use Pilot Assistant - it's SAS is meant for aircraft rather than general ( read: rocket ) use. Clear editor. Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. I've spent the past three hours committing a genocide of historical proportions against my Kerbals, and it's making me quite sad. My 'plane science' is more advanced than my 'rocket science' (career mode) because I got tired of seeing all the high-altitude missions I had on the books and wanted to finish them. In this tutorial we cover the basics of building and flying a jet in Kerbal Space Program. Subscribe - http://www.youtube.com/c/MikeAben?sub-confirmation=. It is certainly possible to make VTOLs that can circumnavigate the planet. By How to force Unity Editor/TestRunner to run at full speed when in background? When your airspeed is near zero and you're above your landing spot, reduce throttle until you start descending. Haha I think Ive perfected an aestheticallyclean turbine jet VTOL USAF F-35b Lightning II2020 https://imgur.com/gallery/918HyM4 https://imgur.com/gallery/f0NDJxR. In other words classic tripod. Set the thrust limiter on your main engines to zero. Ok, you will want to start building. (as in, like 45 degrees) usually resulting in the plane exploding. Can't remember where I saw/read about it - Scott Manley maybe? So this guide is about atmospheric craft designed to fly by makinguse of lift generated by wings, which can take off and land vertically by use of downward-pointing jets or rockets. They optimize use of oxidizer in SSTOs. There's no tutorial in KSP that explains plane design to you and this guide could have taken the lead on that. You should be able to navigate fairly readily, and with the superb efficiency of jet engines, you should have plenty of fuel to go anywhere you need to go. also, you state that a stabilizer (you called it a tail) isn't necessary, and although that's true, it's worth noting that a stabilizer is vital in preventing, and recovering, from flat spins, which can be extremely dangerous. All you need to do is add landing gear (one right before the cockpit, and two on the tips or middle of the wings), and you're done! A V/STOL atmospheric craft built for Duna can drop you on any dime, anywhere on the surface. You should talk about the rocket engine's dV (approx., since not all users use Mechjeb or any other mod capable of showing dV for a given engine and tank). ps. If you have more than one engine, you can get asymmetric thrust at low speeds. In principle it's simple just place your fuel symmetrically around the dry CoM, and centre your vertical thrust vector on it but how? Nah, the stabilizer will do it. Move them back and fill them with fuel or weigh them down with control surfaces. Once you got a hang of these, try bigger stuff. The same applies to Laythe, although it has gentler topography. It uses six Mk 1 utility bay-mounted Junos for hovering. This item has been removed from the community because it violates Steam Community & Content Guidelines. Finally you need to make sure it's all balanced, this means the centre of lift marker needs to be very slightly behind the centre of mass marker. The Cyclone uses Aerospikes for propulsion. Thank you and happy landings. 2. as a rule of thumb they all lose thrust at higher altitudes and at high velocities. Plane body deformations can cause the wheels to touch the ground at a slightly different angle. 3. And you would need to stay hours spectating the ship, because the game doesn't simulate atmospheric drag otherwise. So, if you're having this problem then. I used the angle snapping feature (to the right of the symmetry selector in the bottom left hand corner of the screen in the space plane hangar view) to mount the steerable wheel perpendicular to the ground, and the two fixed wheels symmetrically such that zoomed in, the wheels themselves are perpendicular, though the fixed wheel part itself comes with something like a 45 degree angle between the wheel and the shaft that attaches it to the craft, so the shafts naturally sit at something like a 45 degree angle out to either side so the wheels can sit perpendicular. It can be as crazy or as normal as you want, just remember these basic tips, 1. Good, strong control authority - instead of reducing the pitch control authority, make the plane aerodynamically stable, so that even if you do flip it, it will right itself. For your first flight, it may be easiest to ignore yaw altogether and just maneuver by rolling slightly and pitching. In that vein I drag optimized the Karmilla, and added science parts. Please help, This is an okay guide but it does not go into the nuts and bolts of the deal.like what exactly do all of these wing parts do? How do I build a good stable basic plane? (Yes, you personally, you lucky thing! We still don't know what his craft even looks like yet For all we know it could be a single SRB with canards at the front. This ensures that your aircraft will go up once it achieves a high enough speed, and also helps with placing ailerons. Yes! Here's how you go about building a VTOL under these constraints. We look at the principles behind designing a basic jet. It is usually placed back because it can be placed further back than it is possible in the front (if it is placed in the front, it can obstruct the view of the pilot, which is undesired) as well as making the plane unstable (by the same effect that you would get if the center of lift (horizontal lifting surfaces) were in front of the center of mass, but with vertical surfaces). RCS will get the job done nicely, and looks cool to boot. Because of that if you for example place control surfaces at the front you can make a plane that has CoL behind CoM (like in the picture) unstable because CoL will drift forward past CoM as AoA increases (contrary to your 4th point). So thanks for the pointers - I'll take a look (and try to cure my prejudice re canards). I've been having some trouble lately in newer with respect to air flow. The parts regarding landing gear placement is especially relevant in 1.1.x. Things that work at low altitude don't work so well up high and the plane ends up going up and down while slowly losing speed until it can't maintain altitude anymore. Getting all of this into one craft is a pretty intricate business, however. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. On 11/1/2018 at 10:54 AM, Brikoleur said: On 1/25/2019 at 4:03 AM, panzerknack said: This thread is quite old. This is always my strategy for building planes (although sometimes things go horribly wrong for a different reason.) Wheels need to be touching the ground exactly as they were intended to, you cannot angle them in any direction other then their intended direction when placing them. @gocket the reason why your solution works is because you are counteracting the imbalance of friction in the wheels as they wobble. Check out Mike from Merrimack, New Hampshire as he explains to filmmaker Rod Webber what' That way you can tuck them away for normal flight, and expose them for hovering. Here's how you go about building a VTOL under these constraints. November 1, 2018 in KSP1 Tutorials. I don't have many aerodynamic parts unlocked yet though. Interesting design!! The Panther engine can hold 19,000 steady and oscillates around 20,000. Also, lift is usually placed in the middle-to-back of the wing, depending on the shape. Also there it's important to place small landing gear after setting up CoL to CoM relation since it's mass is calculated in CoM in SPH/VAB but not counted in flight. Light craft have a single engine at the rear of the fuselage. I can make a design that's quite good at hovering, landing, and maneuvering around a site like a helicopter, but it'll be crap as an actual aerodynamic plane- as the control surfaces and wing setup are designed for forward flight - and for hovering I want something that has no forward-bias (ever started sliding backwards in a vtol craft designed for otherwise normal forward flight? An aircraft without control surfaces is like a rocket without RCS or reaction wheels - it will hardly turn and will be equally hard to control (perhaps even impossible!). By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. More air is better. Eventually you either crash, or you reach a high enough speed that SAS wiggling can't cause a significant enough difference in engine speeds. And above all: have fun! If you're going for full VTOL you need to have a TWR > 1.0 at take-off weight; adding more vertical engines will make vertical landings easier and (if they're air-breathers) will make it possible to operate at higher elevations. Love it!! You will need more jets at the nose and tail than on the wingtips, as there will be more forces on pitch when transitioning to or from level flight. Your choice of RCS jet is the Place-Anywhere or the Vernor. Embedded hyperlinks in a thesis or research paper. Privacy Policy. Paste as plain text instead, Do you by chance know how much the thrust varies with these small velocity perturbations? Start with simplest, easiest planes you can and then increase complexity observing and mitigating problems as they arise. I'm trying to build a high altitude plane and have found out that the rules are different.
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